(Jim #33) — For a long time I’ve been critical about Redding’s live music scene (or lack there of). I’ve long blamed the clubs. The truth is, the clubs have to overcome huge fees and threats of even bigger fines and lawsuits from BMI and ASCAP representatives in a situation that many liken to a mob shakedown.
One of the area’s great music venues — Sengthong’s Blue Sky Room in Dunsmuir — is probably going to shut down its live music programing because of the BMI fees.
There are a lot of musicians, club owners and music fans who have passionate feelings about the tactics of these “non profit” organizations. There’s a great discussion happening on the Jefferson Agrarian, where BMI media relations director Jerry Bailey is defending his organization’s position.
Check it out and please contact me if you have thoughts or ideas about this topic.
Jim:
Radio stations have been paying fees since the 1920’s when commercial radio was in its infancy. I do not know who it was that thought it a shrewd idea to promote and popularize music, new and old, with this new medium that reached millions, making the artists and writers tremendous amounts of money, and then paying for that privilege, but he should have been shot. Once, BMI and ASCAP (and SESAC, for that matter) based the fees they charged radio stations as a percentage of gross billing. Lately, they decided to charge a flat fee across the board without regard to the size, power, or resources of the particular station.
The onus of paying these people is placed on the very wallets of those who make and keep their products economically viable. It is definitely an upside-down relationship but it is an entrenched practice. The only solution is for every single entity that is currently beset by these bloodsuckers to stop playing or stop paying.
Now, Jim, this is an important and pressing issue for the local arts community and those who rely on it to stay sane in the mad world.
It’s too bad there’s no some knowledgeable guy who could write about it for the paper.
Here’s me taking an unpopular stance (my specialty these days) — perhaps this might be a boon for those of us who perform original music?
I agree, Erin! I’m looking forward to our indie musicians getting out there and marketing themselves to our local venues! Let’s keep it simple, keep it local and keep it going! Corporate control, based on corporate greed needs to be put in it’s place!
Erin,
It’s extremely cool that you can go out and play all original songs. In this kind of an environment, you do have an advantage. (Even more so because your songs are killer!)
When I saw you a week ago at my show at the Post Office with Santa Cruz songwriter Michael Gaither, the two of us ended up playing about 20 originals. We did about six “common ground” covers. Those songs allowed us to jam out a little on something we both knew. It wouldn’t take much for us to drop those covers completely.
And I agree with applehead that corporate control and corporate greed needs to be put in its place. What I don’t like, however, is a group of bureaucratic organizations threatening clubs and telling artists what they can and can’t play. I know a lot of great musicians who don’t write original music. It would be a shame to never get to hear them play because of the BMI/ASCAP shakedown.
I was talking to the owner of the Stage Door in Mount Shasta and BMI/ASCAP have been all over them trying to extort many thousands of dollars. It’s the oddest kind of situation. Who are these BMI police that go around “busting” clubs if a songwriter happens to play a song that wasn’t their own.
Let’s think about this for a second. What if Jimi Hendrix could have never played Dylan’s “All Along the Watchtower” live? Or Van Morrison never doing “Gloria.” Aretha Franklin never doing “Respect.” Clapton never doing “Cocaine” or “I Shot the Sheriff.” Elvis never doing “Blue Suede Shoes.” Janis Joplin never doing “Me and Bobby McGee” Devo never doing “Satisfaction.” There are thousands of examples.
Through record sales and radio/TV airplay, songwriters make big careers out of others playing their songs. That should never change.
And clubs should probably pay a small fee that they can handle for having live music covers in their businesses. But thousands of dollars a year? They can’t afford that.
Maybe a short-term solution is to cut BMI and ASCAP out completely by having “all original music” clubs. I’d enjoy playing in those clubs. But believe me, there’s something deeper and very wrong going on here.
I didn’t mean to sound so flip in my response — just wondering how this is all going to shake out in the end.
And yes, you ARE right — cover songs – even for those of us who do mostly original material — are pretty handy. I can do my own stuff all night long, but the crowd doesn’t light up until I sing “Ode to Billy Joe.” So I recognize the value in being able to do other songwriters’ material. I also realize that fewer venues for live music is NOT beneficial to the local arts community or to local audiences.
My question is: What can we do? Is there a concerted effort to get BMI to drop their licensing fees for smaller venues? A few hundred dollars a year seems reasonable, but several thousand sounds outrageous. I’m a member of ASCAP — and I would love to know what kind of action that artists can take to keep local small venues open for live music.
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for the discussion – these are hard times, indeed. It’s nice to be able to vent, and think out loud in a friendly forum.
My 3 cents (adjusted for inflation):
Small clubs like those here in the North State too frequently do NOT make money when hosting music events. They are offering them because:
a) they want music in their communities;
b) they want to support local musicians;
c) they might sell a few more lattes/beers/whathaveyou;
d) they want to see live music in their venue.
As Dyar implies, artist royalties are a completely separate issue that BMI likes to toss into this argument to cloud the real issue. I especially love it when BMI says “we’re just a non-profit here to protect artists.” Many folks say, “Hey, they’re not making any money – they’re a nonprofit.”
Some of the best paid CEOs and admin-types in the US work for *nonprofits*. All nonprofit means is that the NPO has to spend what it makes annually. If this means printing up glossy brochures and paying suits to go around and harangue small music venues into paying an annual fee that artists will never see, they’re all about it.
If Eric Clapton cashed in real big with “Cocaine”, I’m sure BMI or ASCAP made sure that JJ Cale got his share for writing the song. That’s a good thing. What’s not a good thing is that the Stage Door in Mt. Shasta cannot have a community get-together and invite a few local musicians to entertain their patrons on Dylan Night without paying BMI or ASCAP their annual extortion fee that ol’ Zimmy will never see.
If you’re a songwriter, copyright your material by all means. But don’t get in bed with these corporations – it’s like Robert Johnson making a deal with ol’ Beelzebub at a lonely crossroad in Mississippi……
Vintage Wine Bar and Restaurant payed ASCAP last year(reluctantly), and today we got a phone call asking, if we had music every night? Is there a cover charge? What is your seating, about seventy? The answers to all those questions were no. The seating is the same as last year. I already pay them yearly, and they still want to get more out of me. They need to pick on someone else! I paid my fee so that I didn’t have to stop the music on Thursdays, and every other Sat., don’t try and get me for more money especially in these hard times!! Jerks!! I’m assuming they saw the ad in the paper and a red flag went up because we’re having music more than one night a week now, so they’ll need more money for that. I’ll let you know what comes of this!!
Oops, we PAID ASCAP not payed, how embarrassing.
I have an 18 seat restaurant with music once a week. I already pay BMI an annual fee. It was calculated by multiplying the number of nights I have live music and the fact that I have recorded music the rest of time time times the number of seats. Other things that would increase the multipliers include having cover charges (I don’t), tv (don’t) and a few other things. All said, the calculation came out to roughly $75/year OR $330, whichever is HIGHER. Tell me, what’s the point of the formula?
Yesterday, I got the letter from ASCAP – same deal. How can I tell our beloved ‘blues dude’ who struggles just to get through the winter that I don’t know how I can keep paying him and these fees? I only have 18 seats, do the math.
I’m guessing none of you are songwriters that make a living off of the royalties collected by BMI/ASCAP. It’s not all bad folks, songwriters are due the small rewards that licensing brings to their table each month.
We need to support our songwriters to that they can keep the music coming. Otherwise …….
OK… here we go! I’m a writer. I make my living as a songwriter, composer, etc. These “fees” many of you are protesting are how I get paid. When I go to “your” restaurant or bar or club or whatever, I don’t see you running to the door and saying, “oh, you’re a songwriter… we’re going to let you in free!” ..or.. “oh, you’re a songwriter… we’re not going to charge YOU for your meal… or your beer… or your whatever.”
Folks like “Brownhound” (please see above) need to understand this simple thing; if you are going to use OUR music to draw patrons to YOUR restaurant, you have to pay the piper. If $330 per year is the straw that breaks your back, maybe having music “once each week” is not worth the whopping $6.35 you’re paying out for a weeks worth of music that has to be divvied up among all the writers who suffered for the art to bring the music to your establishment.
Don’t like that? Close the restaurant and take up songwriting as a career. Get ready for an enlightening experience. And please send me your first 200 songs and I’ll be glad to critique them for you. If you pay me.
Dear Songwriter,
So how do you get paid? How do you know if someone preforms one of your songs in a tiny little wine bar one night? And why should the establishment have to pay if we pay the artists as well?
Just doesn’t add up. Chalk up another establishment that is going to hire musicians who play original music.
Songwriters get NOT one penny out of the outrages fees paid by the venues. They get paid by the radio stations based on reports submitted. However, there is no monitoring and reporting of what songs are played at the venues.
Why don’t the artists have to pay a fee for playing these songs? They get paid by the venue to play them.
We have a small venue in PA. We would not mind paying the fees if it really was based on what we take in for these live music nights. But, they want us to pay by the square foot including the un-used space in the banquet room and most of the empty seats in the restaurant. We usually only see people in the bar on live music nights. They want thousands for us to have music.
Here is what we have decided to do; we will pay the fee and have already informed our artists that we will be paying them less, and only on Saturdays. The other two nights are going to be “open mike” nights. The perfomers are understandably pissed off – at ASCAP!
And in response to Songwriter; of course having music is worth it for us. That’s why we have never felt it fair to have artists play for free – until now.
I’ve been musician for 40years. What this is doing is causing hundreds of musicians to be out of work. Its closing all the mom and pop’s venues that can’t afford the fee’s. BTW we except less every gig because of this so we are paying. Since the early seventy’s some of us have to play for less not more considering inflation and rising cost.
Mind you if the fee’s are going to the songwriters its only penny’s to them the rest being washed in ASCAP and BMI.
The ones lucky enough to have soundtracks and tv work
are not the norm. Which is why these bussiness were born
To protect them. I’m all for musicians getting there fair share but how much is there share in these circumstances?
It will be much less if the music venues close for sure!
Where is the independent songwriter going to PLAY.
MY2CENTS
LOL @ the songwriters trying to defend the ASCAP/BMI scam.
Honestly, if I were the owner of a business, I’d be happy to pay for exactly what I use, to the exact person that deserves the credit, not some clearinghouse “business” that operates more like a legal mafia.
I write software for a living. I get a contract and get paid for what I write when I write it. If someone is able to take what I wrote and make money off of it, more power to them! I do not believe I should get part of their revenue simply because I enabled them to find a way to make money. The same goes for the Programming Software I use to write my applications. They don’t come to me on a yearly basis asking for money because I am making money using their software!
The whole system is screwed up and needs to change.
I’ve been a “hack” musician most of my life. I’m not a songwriter (darn) I’m a “performer”. Could I make a living at this, yeah right….
This copyright thing… books, movies, music…. We should go back to the original copyright/patent laws. THEY had a purpose. With all the padding over the years, now it is supposed to provide income for your great-great grandchildren (did you know the songwriter of “Happy Birthday” heirs are still getting royalties)??? What a drag on society. This “fee” every time “copyrighted materiasl is played must be changed. Local musicians can’t take the pay cut, small venues cant afford the fees (so they just stop having music.
Give ‘em 5 year or so of exclusive rights, then it’s public domain (one of these days, honest musicians are going to be nailing the doors shut at BMI & co and burning the plance down!
cl
I feel that we should be able to pay the muscians directly.
So what is there due from BMI ASCAP. I would be willing to pay every artist who’s music i perfrom. BMI ASCAP should be forced to show us the real payscale per song paid to the muscian not some projected Estimate considering we all play different types of music! If they had to answer every songlist with a Legitimate pricing think of the impact Financially. Its called ACCOUNTING!!! Hit them where it hurts. If we all Forced this issue ON THEM Maybe we could win this Battle.
MY2CENTS
BTW i had read that church’s were exempt i was just imformed by a friend that there chruch had to send them a play list also.
How great thou ART
We own a small restaurant. We have to have live music to bring people in the door. By the time we pay the band and compare that to sales it is a break even situation. Now throw in ASCAP/BMI (and now SESAC is ringing my phone off the hook) extorsion fees and it is a loosing situation. And like most everyone here has said, if the money went to the songwriters it might be understandable to pay something.
Somewhere there is a kick back going to people in the Federal Government to allow the Legalized Extorsionist to continue to operate. They are hiding behind the NonProfit Organization cloak of invisability to continue to beat up on Mom and Pop bar and restaurant owners. They come into your establishment and threaten you with lawsuits and federal law BS to force you to pay thousands. They even tried to get me to pay for boats in the marina next to the restaurant. Then they pretend to feel sorry for you and cut the price by a few hundred dollars. There needs to be someone policing these organization to keep them on the staight and narrow. Maybe someone should hide in the bushes around their offices (like they did to me) and see where all the extorsion money is going.
The system needs to be fixed.